The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

Postby GoatMP » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:04 am

corn diesel wrote:Definitely don't need $50k. I think you need $1k, maybe 2, to open a Roth IRA with them. Also, read anything written by John Bogle, the guy who started Vanguard. He's the most straightforward anti-bullshit guy in investing. His views are strictly empirically informed. He's really easy to read. And his stuff is really interesting. If it's your first foray into index fund investing, it might even blow your mind.


Check your PMs. Didn't want to go too far off topic w the thread.
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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

Postby jiggy » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:46 am

GoatMP wrote:Check your PMs. Didn't want to go too far off topic w the thread.


Have you spent much time on runnerunner? :wink:
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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

Postby Brick Neynolds » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:21 am

Narddog wrote:Yeah, this is great. My buddy is one of the leads on the project. One of the great things about this is that these measures help create more equal footing between the elites and the working class institution (better articulated here: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/18/opin ... leges.html)

More here about their general work: http://www.equality-of-opportunity.org/


Who's your buddy Bern?
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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

Postby Narddog » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:21 pm

John Friedman.
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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

Postby mwalsh88 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:10 pm

GoatMP wrote:
corn diesel wrote:Definitely don't need $50k. I think you need $1k, maybe 2, to open a Roth IRA with them. Also, read anything written by John Bogle, the guy who started Vanguard. He's the most straightforward anti-bullshit guy in investing. His views are strictly empirically informed. He's really easy to read. And his stuff is really interesting. If it's your first foray into index fund investing, it might even blow your mind.


Check your PMs. Didn't want to go too far off topic w the thread.


But actually....this is quite relevant. The assumption most of us, "elites" have that the way to wealth is the stock market, and the almost reverential awe in which we hold it.
10% of the US working population has a stock account. It might be higher if you include 401ks. But not by much. The idea that you need to navigate all the "gotchas" that exist even in a company sponsored 401k is beyond criminal.
Why the F is it so impossible to have a pension fund which pays a reasonable living balance after 30 years of service. Why is this such a wild fantasy for the one group of people in the US - the elites - who can afford to make it happen, and have access to the political levers of power to make it happen?

Read the history of the 401k. The guy who proposed now regrets it. He realizes what it was - a huge windfall for companies w/ defined benefit plans.

Indeed, all current academia reinforces this idea that the Market is "fair" and that failure to participate in it - and ones own other economic failings - are a sort of moral defect. Those who go to Harvard of Haverford are there because they are, "better". Those who don't deserve their outcomes in life, because of their own mis-steps.
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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

Postby Ivo Milic-Strkalj » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:53 pm

http://www.philly.com/philly/education/ ... eaker.html

My alma mater Friends' Central makes the news again for the wrong reasons. I can only assume that some rich, pro-Israel alumni donors threatened to no longer give to the school if Atshan was allowed to speak. It is crazy that a Quaker high school would not allow a Quaker professor at a local Quaker college to speak.
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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

Postby zanelord » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:10 am

Wow that is nuts.
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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

Postby GoatMP » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:29 am

Disclaimer: Sa'ed and I graduated Westtown together in 2002.

The Westtown FB community is up in arms over this (in the Quakerly manner of being "up in arms"), and I think justifiably so even if somewhat biased. Through Haverford and in my time at Westtown, I've met a lot of thoughtful FCS students and alums, most of whom I think would be upset by such a harsh reaction towards a speaker who brings a perspective that we often don't get to hear in-person. Sa'ed grew up in Ramallah in Palestine and attended Ramallah Friends before joining us in 12th grade. Not only is he extremely academically qualified to discuss the controversies of the Israel-Palestinian conflict, but he can give a 1st person perspective both from his youth and his subsequent interactions with that community, which is likely equally as valuable.

Ivo, you say FCS in the news again for wrong reasons. Was there controversy around FCS in the recent past over another or similar issue?
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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

Postby Ivo Milic-Strkalj » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:07 pm

GoatMP wrote:Ivo, you say FCS in the news again for wrong reasons. Was there controversy around FCS in the recent past over another or similar issue?


There was this story about 2 years ago that made it into philly.com:
http://www.philly.com/philly/education/ ... qus_thread

I would say this recent event frustrates me even more. It might make you feel better to know that many all of my Friends' Central Facebook friends are very disappointed and angry at Sellers and the FCS administration. Though, it is somewhat easy for Alumni from around my time and earlier to voice their frustrations because none of us know Sellers or many of the administrators in charge at the moment. It is easy and convenient for me to tell myself that former headmaster David Felsen would've made a different decision on the issue than Sellers.

Alumni were sent this email from Sellers that reeks of administrative bullshit:

As Head of School and Board Clerk, we write to you today with an update on recent events within the Friends' Central community involving student learning about the Middle East, campus speakers, and our path forward. While many have expressed concern, we believe this is an opportunity to live our Mission and emerge a stronger community.

We understand these are delicate issues and want to assure you that the physical and emotional safety of our community is our first priority.

There was a fundamental breakdown in process. We simply did not approach this very sensitive topic with adequate community dialogue. To be clear, our intention has always been to pause – not cancel – any speaker engagement on this topic. We felt it was important that more facts and input from community members be gathered to develop a thoughtful, respectful, and intellectual approach. During this period of pause, two teachers were given explicit directives, which they ignored. As a result of their actions and their expressed intentions, these teachers have been placed on paid leave while we continue a more thorough review.

Members of our community have reached out to share their views, while offering suggestions on how to proceed. To those individuals, we have heard you and we will invite participation shortly. At last night's called meeting, the Board of Trustees began forming a Task Force to determine how we move forward. To lead this effort, Board members and current parents Fariha Khan and Elizabeth Cohen '83 will serve as Clerks. The Task Force will broadly engage our community – including students, parents, faculty, administration, and alumni/ae – and bring together a wide variety of viewpoints. Our goal is to move toward and embrace the challenges of intellectual discourse with respect and empathy.

We commit to communicating more proactively. In the days and weeks ahead, you will receive more information about our Task Force and opportunities available to participate. Some may still have concerns and issues you would like to address directly with the School. Craig is available to meet with any member of our community who would like time to discuss these issues in further detail. This is a priority, and Craig is available in the coming days.

Our challenges reflect the world we live in. This moment presents an opportunity to demonstrate what defines Friends' Central as a Quaker school. We must come together on how we teach our children, to ensure they meet challenges from a place of knowledge and constructive engagement.
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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

Postby Narddog » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:14 pm

Ivo Milic-Strkalj wrote:
I would say this recent event frustrates me even more. It might make you feel better to know that many all of my Friends' Central Facebook friends are very disappointed and angry at Sellers and the FCS administration. Though, it is somewhat easy for Alumni from around my time and earlier to voice their frustrations because none of us know Sellers or many of the administrators in charge at the moment. It is easy and convenient for me to tell myself that former headmaster David Felsen would've made a different decision on the issue than Sellers.

Alumni were sent this email from Sellers that reeks of administrative bullshit:

As Head of School and Board Clerk, we write to you today with an update on recent events within the Friends' Central community involving student learning about the Middle East, campus speakers, and our path forward. While many have expressed concern, we believe this is an opportunity to live our Mission and emerge a stronger community.

We understand these are delicate issues and want to assure you that the physical and emotional safety of our community is our first priority.

There was a fundamental breakdown in process. We simply did not approach this very sensitive topic with adequate community dialogue. To be clear, our intention has always been to pause – not cancel – any speaker engagement on this topic. We felt it was important that more facts and input from community members be gathered to develop a thoughtful, respectful, and intellectual approach. During this period of pause, two teachers were given explicit directives, which they ignored. As a result of their actions and their expressed intentions, these teachers have been placed on paid leave while we continue a more thorough review.

Members of our community have reached out to share their views, while offering suggestions on how to proceed. To those individuals, we have heard you and we will invite participation shortly. At last night's called meeting, the Board of Trustees began forming a Task Force to determine how we move forward. To lead this effort, Board members and current parents Fariha Khan and Elizabeth Cohen '83 will serve as Clerks. The Task Force will broadly engage our community – including students, parents, faculty, administration, and alumni/ae – and bring together a wide variety of viewpoints. Our goal is to move toward and embrace the challenges of intellectual discourse with respect and empathy.

We commit to communicating more proactively. In the days and weeks ahead, you will receive more information about our Task Force and opportunities available to participate. Some may still have concerns and issues you would like to address directly with the School. Craig is available to meet with any member of our community who would like time to discuss these issues in further detail. This is a priority, and Craig is available in the coming days.

Our challenges reflect the world we live in. This moment presents an opportunity to demonstrate what defines Friends' Central as a Quaker school. We must come together on how we teach our children, to ensure they meet challenges from a place of knowledge and constructive engagement.


This is the bottom line from my removed read: "During this period of pause, two teachers were given explicit directives, which they ignored. As a result of their actions and their expressed intentions, these teachers have been placed on paid leave while we continue a more thorough review."

If your boss tells you not to do something and you do it, you're going to get into trouble. There likely is a broader story about speaker sensitivity, but any uproar about mistreatment of these teachers is likely misguided, assuming they were given direction that they subsequently did not follow. To my knowledge, there is not tenure at FCS and their civil liberties weren't violated.
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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

Postby Juan » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:38 pm

If your boss tells you not to do something and you do it, you're going to get into trouble. There likely is a broader story about speaker sensitivity, but any uproar about mistreatment of these teachers is likely misguided, assuming they were given direction that they subsequently did not follow. To my knowledge, there is not tenure at FCS and their civil liberties weren't violated.


Oh hey, NARC.

I don't think anyone is questioning the technical authority of Sellers to do this, or the fact that according to being-the-boss ethics, when your employees disobey you it's important to make a show of force. I think the broader point here is just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, and I would say that Sellers demonstrated astonishingly poor judgement in the way he handled this from start to finish. He is now in an incredibly vulnerable position, and I would say these two 20-something, suspended teachers are probably in a position of greater strength than he is.

In the way of context, there was also another, smaller controversy relating to BDS last year that the administration handled in such a way that everybody left with a bad taste in their mouth. I wish Sellers no ill will and I recognize that he's leading the school at a difficult time, but I think he has a surprisingly poor understanding of leadership in times of crisis and communications. Aside from fundraising that is pretty much all that his job entails.

As far as FCS response goes, I haven't heard of anyone who is supportive of the school on this. Those who are supportive are probably just keeping their heads down. But that says something too. FCS does not generate tons of righteous Molatov cocktail-throwers but this has people pissed.

Also, Ivo, sorry to say but David Felsen did something very much like this when I was a senior. It's institutional at Friends' Central, but they've handled it much more quietly in the past.
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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

Postby Narddog » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:09 pm

Juan wrote:
If your boss tells you not to do something and you do it, you're going to get into trouble. There likely is a broader story about speaker sensitivity, but any uproar about mistreatment of these teachers is likely misguided, assuming they were given direction that they subsequently did not follow. To my knowledge, there is not tenure at FCS and their civil liberties weren't violated.


Oh hey, NARC.

I don't think anyone is questioning the technical authority of Sellers to do this, or the fact that according to being-the-boss ethics, when your employees disobey you it's important to make a show of force. I think the broader point here is just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, and I would say that Sellers demonstrated astonishingly poor judgement in the way he handled this from start to finish. He is now in an incredibly vulnerable position, and I would say these two 20-something, suspended teachers are probably in a position of greater strength than he is.

In the way of context, there was also another, smaller controversy relating to BDS last year that the administration handled in such a way that everybody left with a bad taste in their mouth. I wish Sellers no ill will and I recognize that he's leading the school at a difficult time, but I think he has a surprisingly poor understanding of leadership in times of crisis and communications. Aside from fundraising that is pretty much all that his job entails.

As far as FCS response goes, I haven't heard of anyone who is supportive of the school on this. Those who are supportive are probably just keeping their heads down. But that says something too. FCS does not generate tons of righteous Molatov cocktail-throwers but this has people pissed.

Also, Ivo, sorry to say but David Felsen did something very much like this when I was a senior. It's institutional at Friends' Central, but they've handled it much more quietly in the past.


I am so excited for the inevitable moment when you are my employee and I crush you for being:

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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

Postby Juan » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:35 pm

I would describe my workplace conduct more as:


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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

Postby RunniNirvana » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:54 pm

Are you going to start referring to him as NARCdog?
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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

Postby Juan » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:34 pm

Gold.
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