What's The Scuttlebutt?

talk about news, give advice, ask questions

Moderator: RunniNirvana

Re: What's The Scuttlebutt?

Postby stormin mormon » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:13 am

I am not totally sure how to do it besides pumping way more money into testing. Since the fruits of doping successfully are (to this point) always more lucrative than great testing, you can guess which side is ahead.

As for hedge fund managers and cheating in general... My perspective is perhaps unfairly skewed by my workplace where I see kids who are trained to cheat relentlessly. Show them that the only thing that matters is the result (grade) and that getting the best result will get you paid the most. Then add totally unrealistic expectations about the volume of work (and sometimes the actual intellectual challenge but mostly just volume) and you get kids that are more than ready to justify small things which then lead to larger things. Once you add arbitrary and ridiculous testing as the final king-maker, you get all sorts of cheating both in terms of copying, plagiarizing, etc. and even doping like getting adderall from your buddy for finals week.

So when you have the exact same set of incentives in the athletic world, I don't believe that most people are equipped to give up on an objective, particularly if it is one that you have sacrificed a great deal for, because of what is perceived by outsiders as a moral failing but to most insiders is just part of the game.
"The old lion is not dead yet."
User avatar
stormin mormon
 
Posts: 2802
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:57 pm
Location: mean streets of hardmore

Re: What's The Scuttlebutt?

Postby Koseph Jarpenter » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:49 am

I think it's pretty natural to cheat as well, and way easier to shape people in to cheaters than people who act according to a moral conscience. The reward of a concrete outcome, whether its a grade, a profit margin, a salary bump, or a world championship, is just so much more enticing than the reward of acting morally or just enjoying the process of learning, competing, working, etc. That's why I think the culture of a place like Haverford is pretty cool, as it reverses that trend, though I have no doubt that cheating still occurs.

But yeah, it seems like reducing doping would just take an investment from the leadership of the sport to pour more money in to more sophisticated testing and ramp up the consequences for doping. You're not going to change the culture of professional athletics, so I think people just need to be more afraid of getting caught and the punishments need to be harsher.

My impression is that cycling has "cleaned up" somewhat in the last several years. Is that actually true? If so, how did they achieve that?
User avatar
Koseph Jarpenter
merv Logjammin'
 
Posts: 1614
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:39 pm

Re: What's The Scuttlebutt?

Postby Narddog » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:09 pm

I think if you are busted, you are required to pay back your winnings (to a third party who will then pay those impacted). If funds aren't available, then force the individual into bankruptcy. Also, all records are stricken from the record (irrespective of time period attained) and the person has a lifetime ban.

I view doping like DUI. Make the ounshingment significant enough, people will (better) moderate themselves. Right now, the downside for doping is much smaller than the upside.
User avatar
Narddog
Marathon Mastermind
 
Posts: 9120
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:38 am
Location: San Francisco

Re: What's The Scuttlebutt?

Postby stormin mormon » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:38 pm

As for cycling being cleaner, I think it is certainly better than it was in the 90's and early 2000's. A large part of that has been the establishment of the bio passport. It is difficult to spoof that (unless you start your career already spoofing it) so your hematocrit and other numbers have to remain consistent. So I am sure there is still plenty of micro-dosing going on, there's certainly a significant problem with pain killers and other things that may not make you faster but certainly allow for recovery and the day after day madness that is a grand tour.

What Bernie said about the money is super tricky to work out given the way contracts work and how most of a salary is not based on prize money or bonuses (depending on the contract) but it certainly would be a step in the right direction.
"The old lion is not dead yet."
User avatar
stormin mormon
 
Posts: 2802
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:57 pm
Location: mean streets of hardmore

Re: What's The Scuttlebutt?

Postby stormin mormon » Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:33 pm

This is the kind of doping problem that is truly horrifying:

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/09/doping-rumsas-investigated-sons-death/
"The old lion is not dead yet."
User avatar
stormin mormon
 
Posts: 2802
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:57 pm
Location: mean streets of hardmore

Re: What's The Scuttlebutt?

Postby nathan patton » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:45 pm

farah leaving nike oregon project & saladbar.

http://www.flotrack.org/article/63035-m ... fe5G2iPI2w
User avatar
nathan patton
Stormin Norman
 
Posts: 4578
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:57 am

Re: What's The Scuttlebutt?

Postby mwalsh88 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:44 am

Villanova 2018 recruit

Image

https://runningmagazine.ca/canadian-winter-toughness-on-display-in-vernon-b-c/

Snow. It’s part of a runner’s winter life in Canada.

In the Vernon, B.C. area, one high school distance runner showed snow was no hurdle (for a photo opportunity) even if it blanketed the local track surface.

Taryn O’Neill, a silver medallist over 3,000m at the Pan American U20 Championships, shared a photo to her Instagram account hurdling a steeplechase barrier after what appears to be a significant snowfall. The photo was taken at the Vernon Athletics Stadium.

“How Canadian athletes take on winter training,” the George Elliot Secondary student captioned the photo. “Going into 2018 hoping to race in this kit again,” referring to the Canadian singlet and bottoms worn at international competitions. She was even wearing spikes.

O’Neill will attend Villanova University in Pennsylvania for the 2018-2019 academic year.
User avatar
mwalsh88
 
Posts: 2056
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:38 pm
Location: Toronto, ON, Canadia

Re: What's The Scuttlebutt?

Postby SeaGoat » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:02 am

I love the photo.

You can't see the really nice blue and gray track color scheme there. One of the most beautiful tracks in beautiful surroundings I've seen in person, despite it kind of being a near barren middle of nowhere place.

Image
Last edited by SeaGoat on Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
SeaGoat
Wise Sage
 
Posts: 1772
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:57 am

Re: What's The Scuttlebutt?

Postby GoatMP » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:06 pm

SeaGoat wrote:I love the photo.

You can't see the really nice blue and gray track color scheme there. One of the most beautiful tracks in beautiful surroundings I've seen in person, despite it kind of being a near barren middle of nowhere place.

2w6uh4g7gq2bgvs13eeaea11-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/FullSizeRender-2.jpg


Lesson learned of the day: a Canadian football field does not fit within a 400m track without cutting off the corners of the endzone. I guess I could have done the math...
I'm the renaissance man of track and field, bitch.

"Praise the grammar police" - Pavement
User avatar
GoatMP
Grammar M. Police
 
Posts: 3414
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:08 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: What's The Scuttlebutt?

Postby Narddog » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:08 pm

Pour one out for TnF News: https://www.trackandfieldnews.com/index ... rId=145198

Berenbaum, what say you?
User avatar
Narddog
Marathon Mastermind
 
Posts: 9120
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:38 am
Location: San Francisco

Re: What's The Scuttlebutt?

Postby Hildog » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:14 am

Seagoat, what were you doing in Coldstream? As you said, it's a pretty out of the way place. I'm always impressed by the breadth of your travels.
User avatar
Hildog
 
Posts: 390
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:19 am

Re: What's The Scuttlebutt?

Postby SeaGoat » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:44 am

Really sad about T&FN, but like others I'm baffled by their choice to announce the cancelation of the print version, and a near doubling of their subscription price simultaneously, without even detailing what the online version of the magazine will entail.

Regarding the Vernon BC track.... I was up there for a "high performance jumps" clinic with Boo Schexnayder arranged by Athletics Canada last year. I drove for 6+ hours in the night right after a Saturday track meet for the Sunday clinic. Unfortunately, when I arrived in Vernon some time after midnight, I noticed an email sent earlier that night alerting participants that due to weather Boo wouldn't be able to get there, but they'd try to bring him in by phone. I was so bummed, but it turned out that they were able to bring him in via Skype OK, and the whole thing turned out alright and quite valuable. They've got free electric car charging stations at the college there too!
User avatar
SeaGoat
Wise Sage
 
Posts: 1772
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:57 am

Previous

Return to Running

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron