"I don't understand jog recoveries"

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"I don't understand jog recoveries"

Postby RunniNirvana » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:38 pm

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read. ... ad=8582313

I am finding this thread pretty surprising. Particularly this piece of it (posted by "Villanova alum"):

My understanding is that with VO2max repeats, the jogging helps keep the heart rate up between reps, which is what you want. For Lactate Threshold repeats, jogging or walking helps clear the waste products, which is what you DON'T want (while recovering). Instead, just stand between reps to train the body to clear the waste WHILE running at pace (not while recovering).


And then Daniels' disciples are backing him up on this.

I thought only shitty high school programs had standing recoveries. The thought that I should NOT jog when doing LT workouts is surprising. Anyone care to chime in?

Also, not to hijack my own thread, but some tangentially related commentary on jog recoveries: it drives me crazy when people record workouts and don't time/record their jog recoveries. Think this can mean the same workout average can look very different. In general, I've found that my jog recoveries -- even for the same type of workout -- have gotten much faster as I've gotten older. I've done variations on 12 x 400 (100 jog) at 2-3 seconds faster than 5K pace many times over the years, beginning in college. I've been pretty surprised to look back and see that I would average 40+ seconds for 100m jogs in college and <30 seconds for the same recovery a few years later.
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Re: "I don't understand jog recoveries"

Postby i hate redbellies » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:02 pm

RunniNirvana wrote:http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8582313

I am finding this thread pretty surprising. Particularly this piece of it (posted by "Villanova alum"):

My understanding is that with VO2max repeats, the jogging helps keep the heart rate up between reps, which is what you want. For Lactate Threshold repeats, jogging or walking helps clear the waste products, which is what you DON'T want (while recovering). Instead, just stand between reps to train the body to clear the waste WHILE running at pace (not while recovering).


And then Daniels' disciples are backing him up on this.

I thought only shitty high school programs had standing recoveries. The thought that I should NOT jog when doing LT workouts is surprising. Anyone care to chime in?


I think those people are way, way overthinking it. Personally, I'd say it's a good idea to jog between the VO2 Max stuff, and that it doesn't really matter what you do between the LT intervals. This is based on personal and coaching observations and intuition more than science. Happy to hear someone weigh in from the scientific side.

Also, not to hijack my own thread, but some tangentially related commentary on jog recoveries: it drives me crazy when people record workouts and don't time/record their jog recoveries. Think this can mean the same workout average can look very different. In general, I've found that my jog recoveries -- even for the same type of workout -- have gotten much faster as I've gotten older. I've done variations on 12 x 400 (100 jog) at 2-3 seconds faster than 5K pace many times over the years, beginning in college. I've been pretty surprised to look back and see that I would average 40+ seconds for 100m jogs in college and <30 seconds for the same recovery a few years later.


I don't think this is surprising. You've been very consistent with your training for years, right? It stands to reason that you'd have adapted over that time.
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Re: "I don't understand jog recoveries"

Postby Koseph Jarpenter » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:17 am

I would think you would want to keep your heart rate up with jogging recoveries during LT reps as well, so that it takes less time to get back to the threshold when you start the next rep. As I understand it, lactate production is a function of energy use, so if you're using more energy during the recovery period you'll be producing more lactate through your recovery and when you start the next rep. I don't know how much of a difference standing vs walking/jogging makes for lactate clearance though.

And that's a good point about recording pace of recoveries Jossi. I usually don't because it always seemed cumbersome to log a bunch of extra splits, but at least providing the general pace range, and the extent to which the recovery jogs slow over the course of a workout can be a good indicator of how hard the workout was.

I've experienced the same thing regarding quicker recovery jogs as I've gotten older, but attributed it more to being in marathon shape rather than shorter distance shape. Like I can think of workouts where I'd be running 5:00 pace for 8s or 12s and it would feel really hard, but then easily start running 7 minute pace or faster on the recovery jog like it was no big deal. Or the extreme example would be doing 200+ meter intervals with sprinters (did this once with Chaz), where they look like they are jogging running 28 second 200s, and then are wheezing at 10 minute pace on the recovery.
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